Guests: Ang Moh Sai & Kuan Kong
An open discussion about the English educated and Chinese educated people. Our differences, our similarities, and our own point of views. The rivalry and competition between the Chinese eds and English eds have long existed. See what our guests have to say, and you can share your stories and experience here in the comment area or in our Penang Hokkien forum.
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biwx
I am 100% English educated. I grew up with family and friends which are Chinese educated. I know many Chinese educated friends can speak and write English like English educated student. So I never kua beh ki those Chinese educated.
well… i agree that there are “people” with those bad attitudes independant of the education background, its more to personal attitude. a suitable phrase to brand them is “loser” or “kia su” ahhaha… no offence..
Im 100% english educated but most of my friends are from chinese school…. i never laugh at them when they speak broken english and they also never laugh at me when i speak broken chinese..every one has their own pros and cons..no one is perfect.
i’m chinese ed but my frens all know me s n ang mo sai but i hav to say that wheneva sum1 from one camp laugh at the opposite camp, it will eventually come back n haunt him/her.. its like u laugh a chinese ed s ‘teng sua pek’ but later on in ur life u mite regret that u didn’t learn mandarin etc.. likewise, if u dislike ‘ang mo sai’ n resist learning english just cos u mite appear s ‘ang mo sai’, u’ll eventually still hav to change when u come out to society… but i must say that the gov introducing mandarin/tamil in national school s proper subject is a good move
can we have an entry on current spate between koh tsu koon and umno?
I’m from a english edd school n i can tell you guys this:
Its doesnt matter which school or what education we had, just remember that we are all Chinese & we should help each other to the best of our abilities. Wanna make Penang our ‘heaven’? We’ll have to work hard for it! Penang & Penang Hokkien Rocks!
adoi ! the site theme changed wor ! ha ha i got a shock thought its being hijacked again… haha .. really nightmare hor..
Wah… new look for penang hokkien yah… look like ang mo sai abit… haha
Im from chinese primary school and then go to malay secondary school. end up, I have many ang mo sai frens. but at first during form 1, we tend to group by different gang because we duno each other. and the bad thing is we tend to make assupmtion that somebody not in our gang must be very langsi. the funny thing is they also have the same thought that time. quote from JC, we are sama bangsa, should accept something that different from us then only we can learn from each other…
im eng ed but i did attend chinese class during my primary school days so i can still understand a little bit of mandarin, im the only one among my siblings whom are eng ed stimes they also laugh at me saying im banana -_-” but im still ok cos i know they are only joking
i do regret that i dont know how to read mandarin cos there is a lot of things which are interesting but only available in mandarin but wat to do im now to lazy to learn as it is way too complicated….
btw i not sure u ppl will agree with me but at times u can easily differentiate eng ed ppl n chinese ed ppl they just behave differently of course there is still the odds ;p
It was during the show that we all realize together, it all comes down to the person. No matter what group you belong to.
I’m just glad I’m back in town, and back on the podcast. And hopefully cleaned up most of the mess the hackers left for me.
Thanks for all your patience while I’m gone and with this site going bonkers with hacker’s messages.
I think a lot of people who really good in english will not laught on people, If tht people laught on others one sure got mental problem. Coz they never think that they are chinese and do not know english more Sia Sui Lang la…:P
I had an experince that the Kanasai brainless Lecturer(in college) laught me meeting in front of 30 students. Wah that time so Pai Seh…..
But lyuckily also got a good Indian lecturer alwasy help me in English~!!!
So, for me most the time is depent on that person attitute and Ka Si(Family Education). So, English or Chinese Ed also got these kind of brainless ppl one la…..
I am chinese educated(VCERY CHINESE) I really started to learn to speak english whn i study in college.~!! HUHU….. but now My english better then last time la.. atleast Malaysian Und what i said only Ah MO Kao dun und la…:P hee…
My lecturer and my Ex-Boss are Ah Mo Kao… what they say I just yes… what I say they always , ask to repeat and repeat till they say … OKI~! Nevermind kaka..:P~…
i am chinese educated but i’m into westernisation. if the english educated chinese are called traitors to their own kind, think again. 😛 hehe. i make fun of chinese educated people when they speak bad english. eeeps. but when it comes down to it, i’ve never came across experiences as nasty as discussed on the show. maybe it’s because i’m sitting on the picket fence. watching the show. muahaha.
i think it really depends on that particular person, the personality… (for those really extreme cases)
anyway, overall, i think eng ed ppl in penang is more ‘eng’ compared to other eng ed ppl from other places. Eng ed ppl in penang cant speak mandarin at all and their life is more ‘western style’. I’ve met few that think it’s OK not to have a chinese name (!!!). Whereas for eng ed ppl from other places, most of them speak mandarin/cantonese… and they are not so banana ler.. i dunno why is that so.. hehe.
anyway, there are also chinese ed who like to act like they are NOT chinese ed, as they feel being chinese ed is very siah sui. pathetic.
i used to hate all ang mo sai, but now i m ok with them. Anyway, i think the ‘birth’ of ang mo sai is the fault of malaysia’s lousy education system…. all chinese ed should always give a hand to ang mo sai who wan to learn chinese instead of teasing them, and vice versa…..
I also chin-Edu gina…but i mixed well with english edu ppl…but sometime we teasing each other.for the bad language .but it is only a joke.and nothing serious about it..so…anyway,,if you r a chin or eng educated ppl,,,try not to look down on each other, cause each got its own potential when we came out from School or U….and maybe he will be your boss in one day??who knows?…HeHeHe..one thing is ..when ang moh or mandrin cannot speak that time,,,then just talk in hockkien la…we are penang gina mah….
my parents are e educated and im c educated become pua tang sai. actually those ang mo sai n tng sua pek hav this kind of thought is because they have a bad attitude kiasu n ai bin.
we dont laugh or look down on ppl who doesnt speak well perhaps we need to encourage them to speak n teach them well rather than teasing each other.
i did heard n saw some of the c edu they can really speak in mandarin but dont want use mandarin to speak with u n nge nge kek gau gau use english some more came out to imitate the slang felt that they are so high class to those who doesnt speak so low class very lansi really want to whack them….
I totally agree with Tuna. I think mostly because, like I mentioned in the show, I’m Chinese ed, but my parents were split in Chinese and English ed.
I can also identitfy Tuna’s reference regarding Chinese eds trying to pretend like they don’t speak Mandarin.
Human beings try to fit in all the time, I’m sure we can identify and are probably guity at some level.
I’m so glad such plain topics can spark some further discussion. That’s a great gift for me to see. Thanks so much for being so actively participating in the show.
hi, miku john ah, i am plu.hehe like ur talk la..
(E edu point of view)
Its a good thing when Penang lang tries to learn to speak in english, but its a joke when they try to put in those ‘ah mo’ slangs in it. Its just so fake! Being a banana for more than 20 years, I’d never ever used that ‘ah mo’ slang even once! My words always end with ‘ma’,’la’ n those typical Manglish stuffs!
Btw, one thing I notice about the C edu n E edu is not about the language, but the way of life/culture/fashion…
I’ve always noticed that most C edu dont know much about M’sian’s Malay actors/actress…I have alot of Chung *tut* friend & suprisingly, 99% don’t know who is Sharifah Aini, Sharimah, KRU. The ‘bananas’ in my ex-school PF*tut* the other hand, dont know who is Quang Liang, Fish Leong, Lee Sin Je although they are all M’sians. Fortunately, every1 knows who is Siti nurhaliza n Ah niu…haha
Culture is also very different. While ‘bananas’ started kindergarden with books from ‘Peter & Jane’ and other books with alot of ‘Ah mohs’ inside, C edu ppls are more involved in books n poems from China/Taiwan. When we are in our 20’s ‘bananas’ tend to side with western culture more while C edu is China’s. Theres where all those ‘teng sua pek’ thing came. Anyway, I bet 100% of the C edu ppl know what ‘Ali ?'(mount Ali) is while 100% of ‘bananas’ knows alot about Hollywood stuffs!
Finally, its fashion. I have to say this la…but I think C edu tends to wear more like ‘ah beng’ more than ‘bananas’….serious! Actually ‘ah beng’ are chinese ppl trying to copy Japs in their sense of fashion. Trust me when I say that they actually succeded in copying! Its just we M’sians cant accept their fashion. In Japan, most ppl wear like this also ppl wont say anything! We r a little back dated mentally?
Sorry for this long comment, tried looking for a forum in PHF but cant find any topic related….so i just type it here!
I met an Ipoh woman in London who came here in her early 20s. I suppose she is now in her 50s. She was completely Chinese educated and she pretended that she has forgotten to speak Mandarin. She was so fake! How can she forget a language which she went to school to learn for some 13 years? Is this possible?
I am English educated and I speak Han Yu all the time. I sometimes pick up an English book and have a good read. It is like me saying, Oh wa beh key angmo wa! he he 😉
Since you’ve mentioned it, giam cia ark teung, surprisingly, I do find myself having difficulty speaking in Malay and I’ve only lived in the US for 5 years. It IS really difficult to recall when I hardly use that language. When I was stuck in KL and needed to speak in Malay, I knew what I wanted to say but I can’t freaking form a proper sentence without adding English into it. Hokkien to me is also a little difficult but at least I used every weekend on the phone boiling porridge with mom/dad. Forgive the Ipoh woman and me… we’re victims for being too engross in Western culture.
Venusgal yeh, I know what you getting up to. I was talking to my siblings last year, and they spoke to me in Chinese and I found that I could not speak it. I felt so false and decided to spend hours with Penang Hokkien Podcast and my iPod and then one day my cat decided to be naughty and all the Hokkien just came up. The main thing I suppose is to keep listening to the language and try not to be a banana. I now cannot see anything good about Western culture. The food taste bad; the movies have too many bad words, sex and violence; everybody seems to be so selfish; 2 out of 3 marriages end up you know where; and so on. Well, I am pleased that I am trying not to be a banana anymore. Maybe one day, you will realise Venusgal that our culture is more superior to all these Western business!
once, i was very fluent in Hakka, i can pick up the newspaper and read in hakka like the radio newsreporter from Radio 5, but now i couldnt do it anymore.
I speak hakka with my family since i was born until I left for australia…
Now you want me to speak hakka, I can speak, but a bit rojak already, not as pure as last time, where all my relatives very admire me Hakka speaking and thought I major the language in school.
I speak manglish with my friends, and we always add lah and ma behind each sentense, but I saw many students from singapore or malaysia who still speak singlish/manglish in australia, that really makes me sick. Other people wont understand the lah and ma, cant they just speak proper and simple english if their english isnt that well? This is about the Habbit, not the accent or the slang. Lah and Ma , sometimes these words put me off. for instant, if there is this thai guy speak to you like ” how are you kun kah? oh you are mister M kun kah?
i am good, kun kah…. lets go eat, kun kah…” see u will slap him or not.
who cares about the kun kah, lah, or mah! forget about it and speak properly.
Don’t get me wrong giam cia ark teung, being too engrossed in the Western world doesn’t make me forget abt my own background. I don’t particularly favor being in the West but life has bring me here for a reason. I’ve live in many, many places before the US and I’ve always found myself being too comfortable in those places that I look and sound like the locals. Indeed, I don’t like being called banana, fearing that embarassment of saying, I’m Chinese but I don’t speak Chinese. How stupid does that sound? Well of course, I find as many Hokkien friends that are around and best of all, Miku John made it all happen for us now.
My 2 cents.
I think it is entirely possible to embrace your own culture while learning a new one. Feeling too strongly about one or the other won’t work. You have to deal with both, or more, when you grew up in one, and live in another. I have to say, I enjoy very much the American culture I am in now, but that doesn’t make me forget, in fact, it made me appreciate my Malaysian-Chinese culture even more. Hence this podcast.
As far as speaking English with a slang. I guess, technically it’s accents. Not slang. Slang words, accents affect the way you pronounce words. I believe in speaking the language as close possible to its origin. You’d argue that why our Hokkien are more Penang rather than China. Well, that’s the concept of the show. It’s not a Hokkien podcast, i tis specifically a Penang Hokkien podcast. And as far as English, I believe using the right way of pronouncing words is a good thing. I switched back and forth depending on who I speak to. I think Guleng Chee spoke about that. Of course, to American ears, I still sound very Malaysian. But to Malaysian when I speak with the American pronunciation, I sound very snobbish. 😀 Sometimes I do it just to piss people off! Well, that’s my playfulness.
This could be a good topic also. Talking about how we adopt languages other than Hokkien. We have several good candidates for the show.
Well-said John!! That sound very much like me! =D
Oi Oi!
1 angmoh sai speaking here.
wat “huat kak“??!!
pg lang say “kam kak” ok..
hehe
Huat Kak means realize
Kam Kak means feel
icic
then probably i used to hear n say “huat hien”
never heard ‘huat kak’ la
sounds like some kuih,.like some huat kuay variety, with many corners..keke
Now that you’ve pointed it out. Huat Kak could be more of a literal translation from the Chinese Fa Jue or ??.
Huat Kak also sounds like Huat Kueh and Kueh Kak mixed together.
wow, miku create a new recipe?!
use Huat Kueh to serve in Kueh Kak style… hehe… add more chai poh & tau giaeh… hehe…
Actually, seriously, I love fried huat kueh. It’s so good. Crunchy outside. I like to fry with butter, so it’s a bit salty.
i oso from english ed ma…i not stuck up oso..i got lots of chinese ed frenz….they dun speak english to me..but they dun laugh at me when i speak super broken mandarin..n i help them to correct their english..tht’s how we learn…dun tink tht we r stuck up la…we r afterall..chinese..
yup huat kueh after u fried it,its crunchy but i still like kueh kak with egg + more taugeh n chai poh n the kueh kak must be in smaller pieces cos it taste nicer
I do agree with venusgal ang Guleng C that learning and maintaining a language is about using it…i had no problem speaking malay last time but after coming to US for 4 yrs, i could hardly speak Malay now…i had a hard time at the penang airport last summer when i went back for summer break..i had to mix some english in my malay..even my hokkien also tui po a bit ..instead i picked up english n mandarin more..i’m chin ed by the way
Sometimes I do regret for not being English educated, sometimes. But come to think about it, I am very thankful that I was educated in Chinese and I am very comfortable living in China now. God must have brought me for a reason, to be who I should be.
I always face new words from English newspapers and novels, and my brain just cannot memorise every new word I learn unless I keep using them. I sound like local Chinese, people dun believe I am a foreigner from Malaysia. Happy to be able to speak and write Chinese naturally.
I always admire people of being able to speak the international language so well and able to understand English movies 100% perfectly. With China growing up so rapidly now, who knows Chinese will become international language like what English is being today. Maybe in the next 10 years ? I could very possibly be admired by then. Kiak-Kiak-Kiak-Kiak……
Being a Penangite is such a lucky thing, we speak languages and dialects ! Xiamen people just cannot take it that I seem to understand what they say when I also speak beautiful Cantonese with some colleagues. Not the Malaysian version.
For Guleng C…… I dun feel sick when a Malaysian or Singapore speaks to a Caucasian with the Lah and Mah. Guess what, Australians have their Mate, Americans have their Dude. A normal British says but today there are thousands of Americans especially black people say . That’s a serious gramatical error but people just tend to accept it.
So ? Get all these Caucasians used to our accent ! They have their own “variances”, and we have our own “varities”. And in most cases, we’re only adding “unnecessary” words to end a sentence more emotionally. Dun you think or sound so much more convincing than the so called “proper” English ? No offence but I syok, cannot arh ? Ha-Ha.
Ooooooops. Something wrong with the message, have to repost.
For Guleng C I dun feel sick when a Malaysian or Singapore speaks to a Caucasian with the Lah and Mah. Guess what, Australians have their Mate, Americans have their Dude. A normal British says “I dunno anything” but today there are thousands of Americans especially black people say “I dunno nothing”. Thats a serious gramatical error but people just tend to accept it.
So ? Get all these Caucasians used to our accent ! They have their own variances, and we have our own varities. And in most cases, were only adding unnecessary words to end a sentence more emotionally. Dun you think or sound so much more convincing than the so called proper English ? No offence but I syok, cannot arh ? Ha-Ha.
I think speaking with wat kind of accent and slangs depend on whom u r talking to n where u r…i believe if u r in an ang moh kok kae, u need to speak proper english n without the chinese slangs coz the ang mohs won’t understand…????mah…like i’m here in the US, when I speak to ang moh, i try to speak american accent english (of course can’t 100%)…n when speaking to mainland chinese or taiwanese ppl, i try to speak proper mandarin (again, can’t be 100% perfect)..coz I think when u r a minority in a language environment n u still speak ur version of language, u r acting arrogant..no offense, Xiamen Ah Long..actually I really admire ur passion n knowledge for hokkien dialect..n i’m just curious, how popular is hokkien/min nan hua spoken in Xiamen nowadays?
I have to fully agree with Xiamen Ah Long about the way other people speak English. In the UK, the angmo will say:
She dresses beautiful!
What kind of English is this? The Queen will never be caught dead speaking like this!
All adverbs have ly at the end of the word, and so they should have said, “she dresses beautifully.” For beautiful is used as an adverb to describle the verb dress.
I also admire all the Chinese Malaysians abroad who keep their original Malaysian accent. My siblings all kept their accents. In comparision, I am a sia.
I was talking to a Singaporean yesterday and my sister called, and she was invited to join in the conference call. She began and spoke in English, and the lovely Singaporean gave her a good scolding. I really admire Chinese who speak Chinese when they are with their own kind. My sister then spoke in beautiful Chinese.
Now, I want you to imagine if there are 10 English people in Beijing and they all speak perfect Putong Hua. They have a party. What language do you think they speak? English of course.
Now, the same situation. Ten Chinese make a party in the UK. What language do you think they talk with one another? If they do not speak Chinese, then I will say, SIA to them!
So Xiamen Ah Long, your Chinese is so good. I have heard you speak Hokkien so well in the podcast, together with Ah Hua, and Miku John’s is also excellent. Keep it up for it is so beautiful to hear such wonderful speakers. It motivates us all!
I am English Educated – an angmo sia! However, I realised that Chinese is so important. This year China has overtaken the UK and now the 4th most powerful economic country in the world after USA, Japan and Germany, displacing UK in January 2006. They think that in 2007 or 2008, China will be #3 and then will be top dog soon. There are more people speaking Chinese. The schools in UK are now introducing Chinese in the curriculum. Why? To prepare their students to trade with the Chinese.
So, yes Xiamen Ah Long, soon everybody will be wanting to be like you. Not too long.
LA Aaron:
I am just being sarcarstic lah…… Huh-Huh. Of cours what you mention about ???? is right. However, do you think a British guy living in US for 10 years will change his British accent ? I never lived in Europe or Americas, I am just curious b’coz I do hear British accent in American movies. For my case, when I speak to Ang Mo, I will use “proper” sentences but my accent does not change. I still pronounce CAN’T as Kant like British, even when I speak to American, honestly I am quite irratated by the way they say Kient.
Most of my Chinese colleagues are so crazy about American culture. Their English is terrible, but they still try so hard to pronounce BETTER, and I always hear BELLER from them. I can read THINK perfectly, but they keep saying SINK. So THANK YOU became SANK YOU. The funniest thing is some of them say CHINA as CHEH LAR.
Oooops. Critisize too much on people. I am so bad. My English is just so so, but I try to pronounce words clearly for people to understand me. It’s funny that some of our Caucasian and Korean colleagues at work, tend to learn the way Malaysian people speak English. They always say: OK-lah, no problem lah……
In Xiamen, some 50% of the citizen came from other provinces. Hence Mandarin is more common these days. However, everywhere you go, you will hear a very lame version of Hokkien spoken by locals. I (or we) can understand about 70% of what they say, if you pay attention. We speak Penang Hokkien faster than anyone else. All their tones are so flat, unlike Penang Hokkien we speak like singing and we’re very expressive…… We can be very Or Lor when we beg people to do something. Xiamen dialect has been harmonising with Mandarin so nowadays lots of words are taken from Mandarin but pronounced in Hokkien, the genuine vocabulary just disappear without a trace. Penang people should not be like this.
Xiamen Ah Long:
I hope I’m not mistaken as pro-western..i am also passionate for mandarin n hokkien..i still speak malaysian style mandarin, hokkien, n english among malaysian frens..having met quite some mainland chinese ppl here, i also found their english is not too good and there r some words that they pronounce funny like u said..Think (sink), Thank you (sank you)..on the other hand, malaysians pronounce Think as tink, thank you as tank you..i won’t say it’s the fault of those chinese ppl coz our pronunciation skills mainly come from our native tongue..there’s no “th” pronunciation in mandarin n the closest is probably “s”..while in hokkien or malay, the closest is “T”…just like when malaysians speak mandarin, there’s no clear distinction regarding ??? and ???, ??? and ???..coz in hokkien or cantonese, there’s hardly any ??? word.
I asked u about how often Hokkien is being spoken in Xiamen coz i know it’s slowly dying in china n taiwan…it’s kind of sad..probably penangites will be the ones to preserve the dialect
I’m also glad that China is coming up strong coz it boosts up the status for Chinese, which includes the language..it’s good to see that ang mohs r starting to learn chinese coz it has always been everybody else learning English
this topic is sensitive for me…i dont want to comment 😛
miku john:
first degree = ijazah pertama = bachelor degree
degree = ijazah
^_^
Well, LA Aaron…… Dun feel sad about it – we will do our part. Xiamen dialect is no doubt dying in China, just like Shanghainese and other northern dialects. However, the government came to realise it and quickly started some campagins to help preserving lingual heritage. For Taiwan, do you know that now Taiwanese (Hokkien) is a mandatory subject in some schools ? I can see that resuscitation is in place before too late. We will witness that ! ^__^
Actually, ??? and ??? are not “very” important. In Southern China like Xiamen, people speak worse Mandarin than Malaysians. As long as you can express yourself correctly, with the right words and clear pronunciation, you will bring home the bacon. Tongue or not tongue – it does not really matter. Although, I speak with the tongue rolling naturally.
In Xiamen, some 60% of the people I met cannot read ?? correctly. They say ??. I am serious ! One bowl of rice is ??????????. Please dun come to Xiamen to learn Mandarin ! You will end up dunno where.
^__^
Hi Miku,
I think you should not be too fussed about correcting your Penang Hokkien as it is not always a direct translation from Mandarin. For example, everyday Penang Hokkien dont use words like ?? as kok-oui, instead we usually say kah-liao lang to address everyone. It may be broken in terms of Mandarin as its not Mandarin oriented, but it makes perfect sense in Penang Hokkien and it is understandable by both Chinese and English educated Penang Hokkiens. Also, as Penangites we DO interject foreign words in our Penang Hokkien conversation. I think these little things are what Penang Hokkien is all about.
taiwanese: ??????
malaysian: ??????
chinese from shanghai/beijing: ???????
its normal, we all asian, we understand… the ma, la and ba…
QE english: How are you my friend?
american: How are you doing, dude?
aus: how’s thing mate?
polish’s english: How’s you?
german’s english: how’s pal going?
even they are not all english speaking background, but we all know the meaning of each word…
But:
How are you ar? good or not chek? long time no see already ar, no fuck no baby, you ok ar ? not bad right i see .. not bad ma.. sure or not cheh? no lah i am ok ok only lah.
If you speak like this in lets say, thailand, or even, japan, i dont think they understand your english…
Not to say those people who speak like this in western countries… its not that I dont appreciate the singlish or manglish from malaysia or singapore, but its not appropriate to use in other countries.
thats my point, Xia Men Ah Long 😛
you got your new camera already ARR? How much har? got discount or not first?
My english isnt 100% as well, you know lah.. I also chinese Ed one ma.
correction: chinese from shanghai/beijing: ??????
https://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:%E9%A6%AC%E4%BE%86%E8%A5%BF%E4%BA%9E%E8%8F%AF%E4%BA%BA
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