Guests: Oh Tao (芋头) & Soh Si Ken
Welcome to all the NanYang newspaper readers! I was just told by a listener and friend that PenangHokkien.com got a mention in ????.
We talked about examinations. We have the two extreme of a super cheater and a never cheater. I’m sure this will bring back a lot of memory for most of you, whether or not you were/are a cheater. Learn from the expert!
Share your experience in our Penang Hokkien forum.
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Ah John ah, koh1cheq3 should be ???not ???
? is?. In Mandarin ? is used in ?? though in classical Chinese and still Hokkien it is commonly used to refer to ??
result: saeng(3)kit(1) ??
respect: zun(3)zong(3) ??
unreasonable: ia(1)ban(2) ?? or bo(3)kong(1)to(3)li(4) ????
innocent (not guilty): uan(3)ong(4) ?? or bu(1)ta(2)
Ah Jong laugfing is truely hilarious this time. Ohtao has HiaoHong’s personality.
Thanks Penangknia for pointing out the title. I didn’t know now what cheq3 is. I’ll make the change.
koh chek not ?? meh? why ???
?? normally we prounounce it as ao1 ban2 rather ia1 ban2,how about for others?
bu(1)ta(2)?? is not hokkien la…is malay~
ya….even taiwanese oso not using ia1 ban2, they are also using ao1 ban2
tuna you are right, I think normally Hokkien people used ?? ao1ban2 instead of ?? ia1ban2. After you mentioned it I remember the word ??, which sounds more in place for that context. ?? means savage and it might be applicable for the context but sounds more ?? cho3loh4
Back to your first question, the answer is simply because chek in koh chek is written as ?. If ?? is to be used it is pronounced as koh1si3. However ?? is not a common Hokkien usage, usually ?? is used and widely understood. Just because in Mandarin ?? is the more common form doesn’t mean Hokkien also has to use ??, especially when the chek in koh check clearly comes from ?, which means to book, so ?? literally means examination of (materials) in the book.
Thinking in Mandarin helps when speaking Hokkien, but sometime it is misleading. For example, ? in Hokkien and Mandarin have similar but different meanings. In Hokkien and classical Chinese it means “running but in Mandarin it is “walking”. The word for walking in Hokkien is ? (knia2), which is not used by itself in Mandarin to mean walking but the meaning of walk is still evident and conjugated word like ??? (walking people lane)?
Forgive me PigGalleryByTARO for including the Malay words buta, but there are some Malay words that I really cannot let go in Hokkien, words like ta3pi4 (tapi), lui1(duit), lo3ti1(roti), kao3in2(kahwin), ma1na4(mana), oh3kong1(hukum) and some English words sa3man (summon), paip1(pipe) may be because they are “naturalized” in the Hokkien we speak, unlike many English words that are used unmodified by many modern Hokkien speakers. In some cases it is hard to decide which word is actually of Hokkien or Malay origin, like lui1 which I believe is of Malay origin but since it is used so widely even in China and it has a character ? to represent it in Hokkien, some people consider it of Chinese origin.
However, for the sake of Hokkien’s integrity I will always try to use it’s original form when available. But sometimes the common unHokkien forms will slip out.
Question: Does the word sampan comes from Chinese? How about sampah? Tong Sampah? And about pisao? When I heard the word ?? in Hokkien I thought it comes from Malay, turned out that the Malay word sampan comes from ??! Sampah is of Malay origin, Tong is however from Chiense ?. Coincidentally “dustbin” in Malay is Tong Sampah [Chinese + Malay], in Penang Hokkien it is Sampah Tang [Malay + Chinese]. Funny isn’t it? Lastly pisao comes from ??, a Chinese weapon that looks just like pisao but is commonly used (or associated ) with assasination.
This is the beauty of Penang Hokkien. It gets people with knowledge to share it here.
I appreciate what you’re doing PenangKnia.
I used ?? because I didn’t know how to write ?. I’m glad you told me about it. I try to write it in Hokkien as much as possible, but I didn’t know this time, so I just went with Mandarin. But I am aware that it wasn’t Hokkien.
Ah John:
You sure never read ? so you dunno how to write it. Hey-Hey-Hey…… ^_^
Penangknia:
You’re so knowledgeable in Hokkien. ?? is no doubt a Chinese word. Do you know about Sabun ? Sabun is a Portuguese word, but adapted into Malay and brought to China a few hundred years ago. That’s why a lot of Malaysian colleagues of mine are shocked when they hear local Xiamenists call it Sabun. Everyone thinks it’s from Malay. ^__^
There are words that I think we can record in Chinese characters. I have been thinking about Suka, it could be vivid if we write as ?? – imagine ? means Think and ? means Feel, so I “think” of you and I “feel” you b’coz I “suka” you. Ha-Ha.
Hukum perhaps also can be written as ?? b’coz someone did somehting ?? with the ? (Public Servant or Government).
Yet again, I think the naturalisation of borrowings from other languages into Penang Hokkien can be determined, whether our grandmother (at least 70) uses it or not. My grandmother used all examples mentioned above before she passed away, so these should be Penang Hokkien. She did not understand “opposite” or “main road” or “challenge” etc, but she understood “flat” or “computer” or “bus stop”…… Phew……
Kahwin – do you think if we write down as ?? or ?? (given many people read Gao En) would it be cute……?
By the way…… Ah John, are you sure Puki is a Chinese word ? What do you think, Penangknia ? I thought it was a Malay word. Yes, Cibai is a Hokkien word but I dun think Puki is also one.
?? is ok, dun become ??? pula. hahahahahaha
?? is more to teochew sound lah…
Izzit arh ? In Penang Teow Chew you guys call it Kao En meh ? I dunno, b’coz I dun speak Teow Chew. In Hainanese, it’s Kek Oen, which is ??.
Do you guys realise that, dunno since when a lot of new borrowings in Penang Hokkien come from Cantonese and Mandarin ? I am talking about new expression which I dun think I used them when I was small……
Lost / Hilang = Pang Kni but lots of people just say ?? in Mandarin these days
? as in ???? from Cantonese ????
I dun think my parents say such a thing, but among friends a lot of Chinese ed use these expressions very often. What’s the reason arh ?
Haha, what a coincident, my grandma likes to use the word “challenge” pronounced in her Hokkien way of course (tsae1len4). Yeah, I am quite sure cibai is of Hokkien origin, but is not recorded in classical Chinese, which at first lead me to think that it is of unique Minnan origin, but after I learnt that northern China local dialect has similar word ci1ba1?? , which like cibai refers to the private but is of the male one (lanjiao) instead of the female one (puki). Interestingly Hokkien speaker conversant in Mandarin also writes cibai in Mandarin pronunciation of ? + ?, which I’ve seen it in Malaysia and Taiwan. Cibai though not recorded in Ancient Chinese literature, it has a character representation in some modern Hokkien dictionary: [?+?][?], which looks like a modern phonetic transliteration. I’ve seen sabun written as ???
Since puki is only used in Nanyang Hokkien (I presume, is it true?), I think it is not of Hokkien origin.
Yeah, I think some dictionaries wrote kao3in2 as ??, which I think is very creative since both the characters used have the meaning and sound pretty accurately.The advantage of abundant Chinese characters is that many foreign phonetic translation can be translated meaningfully, with both sound and meaning preserved ???? . For example “gene” is translated into ??, which has the sound of gene and also a new meaning on its own (fundamental cause), makes a lot of sense for Chinese readers.
Actually hnoh, my spoken Hokkien is not very good lah, may be I’ve pretty standard Penang Hokkien accent but I lack some very common Hokkien expressions, due to lack of practice, which I blame partly to increasingly westernized, mandarinized, cantonized and generally unhokkienized environment (i.e. Penang. In the past even Malays speak Hokkien in Penang, now some Indians still speak pretty well). I used to made so many mispronunciations when speaking Hokkien, and may be that is what motivated me to listen very carefully when someone is speaking Hokkien, especially old people. Also I got some dictionaries around and I’ve heard my grandma speaking Hokkien since I was young, and also listening to Penang Hokkien Podcast faithfully since its inception. For those who really want to master Hokkien I strongly recommend listening to all episodes of Penang Hokkien Podcast. Haha, ka1 Ah3 John2 pak1 kong1 ko3!
penangknia ah, when you want to appear in Penang Hokkien and share with us all those Hokkien related things? it been so long long long time we want you on the show leh. May be next recording can ask Ah John to arrange…hehehhehe
Penangknia: I really like to talk to you one day. It’s obvious that we share the same thought and passion in Hokkien, though my knowledge is not as rich as yours, I have many to learn from you. Remember, I am only teaching tuition….. Ha-Ha. Sometimes I make mistakes and mislead people……
The character you mentioned can be typed: ? pronounced as ?
Today, I know how to write Cibai in Chinese liao. Heh-heh-heh-heh……
Thanks for the character, I checked iciba.com and found out that ? literally means ??! No wonder I’ve been hearing “wah cow” among young people nowadays, it really means something …
https://www.iciba.com/search?s=%E7%89%B8
??????
?
z
?? [cow]
????,????,?????,????????????? ?? ?????????
??????? [female]??:??;??
Ah John was looking for the Hokkien way of saying bookeeping, now I think it is snui1siao3 ?? or may be more polite ki1siao3 ??, since snui1siao3 is also used to scold or threaten people
Penangknia: You’re so funny. Dun tell me you dunno about “Wah Cow”…… It has nothing to do with Lembu or Kerbau, OK ? It’s just the distorted version of “Wah Cao4” (??) so young people in China and Taiwan just say ??. It’s a bad word, if you say it to elderly you will get a good telloff. Well, I use it a lot to close friends in China…… Wah Kao……
in the show you made a mention to ottao’s (i think) teowchiu accent. i also say some words more like ohtao, but i speak hokkien, except not penang. i speak huinh hua hokkien, and we say it cheng (not chuih as you said), le (instead of lu), teng (not tuih) etc.
in oz (where i studied) for maths we had a calculator and calculator free exam. in the calcfree some people said need to go to toilet and then use calculator in there. the teacher dont seem to notice that they went to toilet about 5+ times in just 1 and a half hour!!!
aiyoo… during secondary school ah, we can pass answer from A1 to friend that sit at F9 (refer to row & column in excel then you know how far liao) hahahahahaha…
not passing paper leh, kinds like wireless…got all the signal lah…hahahahahah
the exam one rite??there’s a part this oh tao say write on the calculator cover,this oso we kenot do,bcuz we kenot bring in the cover during examinations..but i am still in high school lor…i never really copy..if i dunno,i hentam..mayb u can say i am another chicken one..but i dun feel like doing it…i alwiz hentam n still pass…
however,oh tao seems like an expert..keke..salute her..my frenz pernah copy though..but i dun care la..non of my business..